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	<title>Comments for The Math Factor Podcast</title>
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		<title>Comment on Morris: Living with Crazy Buttocks by jyoak</title>
		<link>http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/10/morris-living-with-crazy-buttocks/comment-page-1/#comment-654</link>
		<dc:creator>jyoak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 01:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=825#comment-654</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;That puzzle is absolutely fantastic!  I didn&#039;t recognize it and thus got the fun of tackling it, but once I came upon a solution I became convinced that I&#039;ve seen this before, perhaps with different particulars.  Is this a Martin Gardner puzzle or something?  Has it ever been on the show?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I started trying to solve it like one of my hat puzzles -- trying to divide up the permutations such that when there is going to be any misses that there are tons of misses, but that correct guesses occur together.  It is possible to make improvements over random this way.  Consider 4 books / people, 2 guesses.  (I assume throughout that we can find a way to make the boxes under the tree ordinal in some sense.  &quot;Closest to the southwest corner at the floor with ties broken by being southernmost&quot; or some such.  I assume that solving this isn&#039;t the puzzle you&#039;re aiming for and I treat it as though you can assume the boxes are numbered 1-20.)  If you have people A and B both open boxes 1 and 2 and C and D always open 3 and 4, consider the cases:&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;  1:  A B C D&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 2:  A B D C&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 3:  A C B D&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 4:  A C D B&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 5:  A D B C&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 6:  A D C B&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 7:  B A C D&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 8:  B A D C&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 9:  B C A D&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 10: B C D A&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 11: B D A C&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 12: B D C A&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 13: C A B D&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 14: C A D B&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 15: C B A D&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 16: C B D A&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 17: C D A B&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 18: C D B A&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 19: D A B C&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 20: D A C B&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 21: D B A C&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 22: D B C A&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 23: D C A B&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt; 24: D C B A&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;With this strategy, you get 1, 2, 7, 8 or 1/6, which is considerably better than 1/2^4 you get for random.  This kind of idea can be extended to larger numbers of boxes and perhaps improved upon, but it doesn&#039;t feel like a candidate for your favorite puzzle ever.  I then had one of those pull-over-to-the-side-of-the-road epiphanies that you&#039;re throwing away a lot of information.  Strategies of this form presume that you look into a box and see either your book or &quot;not your book.&quot;  You actually see some particular person&#039;s book and can alter behavior based on this event.  That&#039;s a lot to throw away.  How can we use this to cause good guesses to collide?&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Consider person A assigned to open the first box.  If he finds his own book, he&#039;s done.  When he finds a book belonging to X, his concern is to open another box such that if if he finds his book and X happens to open that box first, that X will make a good decision.  So if he finds B&#039;s book, and he opens box 2, he wants B, if starts at 2, to open box 1 next in the case that A&#039;s book is there and probably not otherwise.  This same logic should apply to everyone.  So generally, that means, that if you assign each person a different starting box, if they don&#039;t find their book, they should open the starting box corresponding to the person owning the book that was found. Assume A assigned 1, B to 2, C to 3, and D to 4.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In case 1, everyone finds their book straight off.  A happy result.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In case 2, A finds his book.  B finds his book.  C finds the book of D, and so opens 4 and finds his book.  4 finds C, opens three and finds his book.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In case 3, A finds his book.  B finds C, thus opens three and finds his book.  C finds B, opens 2, and finds his book.  D finds his book.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In case 4, A finds his book, B finds C, opens 3 and fails.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In case 5, A finds his book.  B finds D, opens 4 and fails.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In case 6, A finds his book.  B finds D, opens 4 and finds his book.  C finds his book.  D finds B, opens 2 and finds his book.   &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Already as many winning cases as my strategy above!  It continues:  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;7: Hit  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;8: Hit  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;9: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;10: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;11: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;12: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;13: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;14: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;15: Hit  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;16: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;17: Hit  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;18: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;19: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;20: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;21: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;22: Hit  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;23: Fail  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;24: Hit   &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;So we get to go to Paris a staggering 10/24 times.  Since 12/24 or 1/2 seems to be a theoretical maximum, that&#039;s just astounding!  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;To extend this to the case of 20, After opening your second box, you continue on by opening the box of the person&#039;s book you find at each step.  This is the point at which I started to think I&#039;d seen this problem before.  Since you&#039;re following a sort of chain here, you have a finite number of states and since your box is sure to be in the chain (you started with the box to which you&#039;re assigned) you know that if you could keep guessing and following this method that you&#039;d find your book rather than being caught in a loop not containing your book.  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The only question is whether the chain that your part of is short enough to get there in 10 hops.  If you look back at the hits and misses from the case of 4, you see that you hit exactly when the state is one that could be obtained by sorting them so each person would find their book initially and the allowing the following operations:  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Leaving a book alone (generates a chain of 1).  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Exchange a book with another (generating a chain of 2).  (This operation can&#039;t be repeating on any book already used in it, of course.)  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;In case of a fail, something else happened.  Pick one at random, case 14: C A D B .  With this , there is a chain of positions  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;1-&gt;3-&gt;4-&gt;2
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;and only then back to 1.  A chain of 4.  There should be chains of 3 in there as well.  Looking... 4:  A C D B .  Position 1 is a chain of 1.  The other chain is:  &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;
2-&gt;3-&gt;4  
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;and then back to two.   
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;This chaining idea is familiar to me, but I can&#039;t place where, and I&#039;m pretty sure at least it wasn&#039;t books and boxes.  But anyway... there you have it.   
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The next question I ask myself how often do you win with 20?  All cases where no one lands in a chain of greater than length 10 (and so in all cases where no such chain exists) is an answer of sorts, but how often is that?  I&#039;m at a complete loss as to how to compute that.  My guess is that it stays fairly close to one half, but gets worse as you add more people and boxes.  (But it sure would be beautiful if it doesn&#039;t change at all, except by rounding error.)  I could program it to come up with an estimate, but instead I think I&#039;ll stop and get some work done today.  :-)  
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Steve, thanks for the puzzle.  This was absolutely fantastic&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That puzzle is absolutely fantastic!  I didn&#8217;t recognize it and thus got the fun of tackling it, but once I came upon a solution I became convinced that I&#8217;ve seen this before, perhaps with different particulars.  Is this a Martin Gardner puzzle or something?  Has it ever been on the show?</p>
<p>I started trying to solve it like one of my hat puzzles &#8212; trying to divide up the permutations such that when there is going to be any misses that there are tons of misses, but that correct guesses occur together.  It is possible to make improvements over random this way.  Consider 4 books / people, 2 guesses.  (I assume throughout that we can find a way to make the boxes under the tree ordinal in some sense.  &#8220;Closest to the southwest corner at the floor with ties broken by being southernmost&#8221; or some such.  I assume that solving this isn&#8217;t the puzzle you&#8217;re aiming for and I treat it as though you can assume the boxes are numbered 1-20.)  If you have people A and B both open boxes 1 and 2 and C and D always open 3 and 4, consider the cases:</p>
<p>  1:  A B C D</p>
<p> 2:  A B D C</p>
<p> 3:  A C B D</p>
<p> 4:  A C D B</p>
<p> 5:  A D B C</p>
<p> 6:  A D C B</p>
<p> 7:  B A C D</p>
<p> 8:  B A D C</p>
<p> 9:  B C A D</p>
<p> 10: B C D A</p>
<p> 11: B D A C</p>
<p> 12: B D C A</p>
<p> 13: C A B D</p>
<p> 14: C A D B</p>
<p> 15: C B A D</p>
<p> 16: C B D A</p>
<p> 17: C D A B</p>
<p> 18: C D B A</p>
<p> 19: D A B C</p>
<p> 20: D A C B</p>
<p> 21: D B A C</p>
<p> 22: D B C A</p>
<p> 23: D C A B</p>
<p> 24: D C B A</p>
<p>With this strategy, you get 1, 2, 7, 8 or 1/6, which is considerably better than 1/2^4 you get for random.  This kind of idea can be extended to larger numbers of boxes and perhaps improved upon, but it doesn&#8217;t feel like a candidate for your favorite puzzle ever.  I then had one of those pull-over-to-the-side-of-the-road epiphanies that you&#8217;re throwing away a lot of information.  Strategies of this form presume that you look into a box and see either your book or &#8220;not your book.&#8221;  You actually see some particular person&#8217;s book and can alter behavior based on this event.  That&#8217;s a lot to throw away.  How can we use this to cause good guesses to collide?</p>
<p>Consider person A assigned to open the first box.  If he finds his own book, he&#8217;s done.  When he finds a book belonging to X, his concern is to open another box such that if if he finds his book and X happens to open that box first, that X will make a good decision.  So if he finds B&#8217;s book, and he opens box 2, he wants B, if starts at 2, to open box 1 next in the case that A&#8217;s book is there and probably not otherwise.  This same logic should apply to everyone.  So generally, that means, that if you assign each person a different starting box, if they don&#8217;t find their book, they should open the starting box corresponding to the person owning the book that was found. Assume A assigned 1, B to 2, C to 3, and D to 4.  </p>
<p>In case 1, everyone finds their book straight off.  A happy result.  </p>
<p>In case 2, A finds his book.  B finds his book.  C finds the book of D, and so opens 4 and finds his book.  4 finds C, opens three and finds his book.  </p>
<p>In case 3, A finds his book.  B finds C, thus opens three and finds his book.  C finds B, opens 2, and finds his book.  D finds his book.  </p>
<p>In case 4, A finds his book, B finds C, opens 3 and fails.  </p>
<p>In case 5, A finds his book.  B finds D, opens 4 and fails.  </p>
<p>In case 6, A finds his book.  B finds D, opens 4 and finds his book.  C finds his book.  D finds B, opens 2 and finds his book.   </p>
</p>
<p>Already as many winning cases as my strategy above!  It continues:  </p>
<p>7: Hit  </p>
<p>8: Hit  </p>
<p>9: Fail  </p>
<p>10: Fail  </p>
<p>11: Fail  </p>
<p>12: Fail  </p>
<p>13: Fail  </p>
<p>14: Fail  </p>
<p>15: Hit  </p>
<p>16: Fail  </p>
<p>17: Hit  </p>
<p>18: Fail  </p>
<p>19: Fail  </p>
<p>20: Fail  </p>
<p>21: Fail  </p>
<p>22: Hit  </p>
<p>23: Fail  </p>
<p>24: Hit   </p>
</p>
<p>So we get to go to Paris a staggering 10/24 times.  Since 12/24 or 1/2 seems to be a theoretical maximum, that&#8217;s just astounding!  </p>
</p>
<p>To extend this to the case of 20, After opening your second box, you continue on by opening the box of the person&#8217;s book you find at each step.  This is the point at which I started to think I&#8217;d seen this problem before.  Since you&#8217;re following a sort of chain here, you have a finite number of states and since your box is sure to be in the chain (you started with the box to which you&#8217;re assigned) you know that if you could keep guessing and following this method that you&#8217;d find your book rather than being caught in a loop not containing your book.  </p>
<p>The only question is whether the chain that your part of is short enough to get there in 10 hops.  If you look back at the hits and misses from the case of 4, you see that you hit exactly when the state is one that could be obtained by sorting them so each person would find their book initially and the allowing the following operations:  </p>
<p>Leaving a book alone (generates a chain of 1).  </p>
<p>Exchange a book with another (generating a chain of 2).  (This operation can&#8217;t be repeating on any book already used in it, of course.)  </p>
<p>In case of a fail, something else happened.  Pick one at random, case 14: C A D B .  With this , there is a chain of positions  </p>
<p>1->3->4->2
</p>
<p>and only then back to 1.  A chain of 4.  There should be chains of 3 in there as well.  Looking&#8230; 4:  A C D B .  Position 1 is a chain of 1.  The other chain is:  </p>
<p>
2->3->4
</p>
<p>and then back to two.
</p>
<p>This chaining idea is familiar to me, but I can&#8217;t place where, and I&#8217;m pretty sure at least it wasn&#8217;t books and boxes.  But anyway&#8230; there you have it.
</p>
<p>The next question I ask myself how often do you win with 20?  All cases where no one lands in a chain of greater than length 10 (and so in all cases where no such chain exists) is an answer of sorts, but how often is that?  I&#8217;m at a complete loss as to how to compute that.  My guess is that it stays fairly close to one half, but gets worse as you add more people and boxes.  (But it sure would be beautiful if it doesn&#8217;t change at all, except by rounding error.)  I could program it to come up with an estimate, but instead I think I&#8217;ll stop and get some work done today.  :-)
</p>
<p>Steve, thanks for the puzzle.  This was absolutely fantastic</p>
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		<title>Comment on Morris: Living with Crazy Buttocks by Stephen Morris</title>
		<link>http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/10/morris-living-with-crazy-buttocks/comment-page-1/#comment-651</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 19:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=825#comment-651</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Here is a clue, just in case you need one.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;[spoiler]&lt;a href=&quot;../../../2008/10/follow-up-loops-and-the-harmonic-series/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2008/10/follow-up-loops-and-the-harmonic-series/&lt;/a&gt;[/spoiler]&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt; &lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a clue, just in case you need one.</p>
<p><a href="javascript:void(null);" onclick="s_toggleDisplay(document.getElementById('SID1239804932'), this, 'Show Spoiler &#9660;', 'Hide Spoiler &#9650;');">Show Spoiler &#9660;</a></p>
<div id='SID1239804932' style='display:none;'>
<a href="../../../2008/10/follow-up-loops-and-the-harmonic-series/" rel="nofollow">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2008/10/follow-up-loops-and-the-harmonic-series/</a>
</div>
</p>
<p> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>Comment on Morris: Living with Crazy Buttocks by Stephen Morris</title>
		<link>http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/10/morris-living-with-crazy-buttocks/comment-page-1/#comment-650</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 18:59:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=825#comment-650</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve had a few questions about this puzzle.  To clarify:&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;You cannot tell which book is in a box without opening it.  The books are strapped down and weighted in some way.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The boxes, books and the room are identical when each guest enters.  There is no way a guest can communicate with or leave clues for other guests once they enter the room.  The puzzle is about the strategy they come up with before the game starts.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;The guests have seen who gets each book and the arrangement of boxes before the game starts.  They don&#039;t know which book is in which box.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had a few questions about this puzzle.  To clarify:</p>
<p>You cannot tell which book is in a box without opening it.  The books are strapped down and weighted in some way.</p>
<p>The boxes, books and the room are identical when each guest enters.  There is no way a guest can communicate with or leave clues for other guests once they enter the room.  The puzzle is about the strategy they come up with before the game starts.</p>
<p>The guests have seen who gets each book and the arrangement of boxes before the game starts.  They don&#8217;t know which book is in which box.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Yoak: Average Salary by laciermaths</title>
		<link>http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/10/yoak-average-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-648</link>
		<dc:creator>laciermaths</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 03:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=866#comment-648</guid>
		<description>Each person splits his income into two parts, say a1 + a2, b1 + b2, and c1 + c2. Now B whispers b1 to A, who computes and remembers a2 + b1. Similarly C whispers c1 to B, and A whispers a1 to C. Now A openly declares a2+b1, B declares b2+c1, and C declares c2+a1, and they can all compute the average.
At the end, C knows the sum of the salaries, his own salary and the manner in which it was partitioned, a1 (since he was told it), b2 (since he knows what he told B), and a2+b1 (since it was declared out loud). But there&#039;s no way for him to separate a2+b1, so he doesn&#039;t know the salaries of the other two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Each person splits his income into two parts, say a1 + a2, b1 + b2, and c1 + c2. Now B whispers b1 to A, who computes and remembers a2 + b1. Similarly C whispers c1 to B, and A whispers a1 to C. Now A openly declares a2+b1, B declares b2+c1, and C declares c2+a1, and they can all compute the average.<br />
At the end, C knows the sum of the salaries, his own salary and the manner in which it was partitioned, a1 (since he was told it), b2 (since he knows what he told B), and a2+b1 (since it was declared out loud). But there&#8217;s no way for him to separate a2+b1, so he doesn&#8217;t know the salaries of the other two.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Yoak: Average Salary by Blaine</title>
		<link>http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/10/yoak-average-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-646</link>
		<dc:creator>Blaine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=866#comment-646</guid>
		<description>I think this would work...[spoiler]Have the first person think of a suitably large random number.  To that, he adds his salary.  This sum is told to the second person.  The second person adds his salary and tells the sum to the third person.  The third person adds his salary and tells the sum to the first person.  The first person subtracts the initial random number and divides by 3.  I think this prevents any one person from being able to calculate the salary of another.[/spoiler]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this would work&#8230;<a href="javascript:void(null);" onclick="s_toggleDisplay(document.getElementById('SID407291331'), this, 'Show Spoiler &#9660;', 'Hide Spoiler &#9650;');">Show Spoiler &#9660;</a></p>
<div id='SID407291331' style='display:none;'>
Have the first person think of a suitably large random number.  To that, he adds his salary.  This sum is told to the second person.  The second person adds his salary and tells the sum to the third person.  The third person adds his salary and tells the sum to the first person.  The first person subtracts the initial random number and divides by 3.  I think this prevents any one person from being able to calculate the salary of another.
</div>
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		<title>Comment on Yoak: Average Salary by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/10/yoak-average-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-645</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=866#comment-645</guid>
		<description>A solution:
[spoiler]Each coworker i knows their salary Si.  Furthermore, coworker 1 makes a random number R from a range large enough that R+Si gives acceptably little information about Si, and doesn&#039;t tell it to anyone else.

1 Computes S1 + R and gives it to 2
2 Computes S1 + S2 + R and gives it to 3
3 Computes S1 + S2 + S3 + R and gives it to 1
1 Computes S1 + S2 + S3 and tells everyone the result.

In the end, 1 knows S2+S3, 2 knows S1+R and S1+S3, and 3 knows S1+S2+R and S1+S2, and can deduce R.  None of this is enough for any of them to deduce the others&#039; individual salaries.[/spoiler]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A solution:<br />
<a href="javascript:void(null);" onclick="s_toggleDisplay(document.getElementById('SID483318203'), this, 'Show Spoiler &#9660;', 'Hide Spoiler &#9650;');">Show Spoiler &#9660;</a></p>
<div id='SID483318203' style='display:none;'>
Each coworker i knows their salary Si.  Furthermore, coworker 1 makes a random number R from a range large enough that R+Si gives acceptably little information about Si, and doesn&#8217;t tell it to anyone else.</p>
<p>1 Computes S1 + R and gives it to 2<br />
2 Computes S1 + S2 + R and gives it to 3<br />
3 Computes S1 + S2 + S3 + R and gives it to 1<br />
1 Computes S1 + S2 + S3 and tells everyone the result.</p>
<p>In the end, 1 knows S2+S3, 2 knows S1+R and S1+S3, and 3 knows S1+S2+R and S1+S2, and can deduce R.  None of this is enough for any of them to deduce the others&#8217; individual salaries.
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		<title>Comment on Yoak: Average Salary by Andy</title>
		<link>http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/10/yoak-average-salary/comment-page-1/#comment-644</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 20:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=866#comment-644</guid>
		<description>You have to assume that none of the three of you will lie, of course.
Here is one way:
You get a random integer in some range like [0.2*salary, 5*salary], add it to your salary, and then write that number down on a piece of paper and pass it to person #2. Person #2 adds their salary to the number, writes this new number down on a new piece of paper and passes it to person #3. Person #3 adds their salary to the number, writes the new sum on a new piece of paper and passes it back to you. You subtract off the random number, and announce the result, which is the sum of the three salaries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have to assume that none of the three of you will lie, of course.<br />
Here is one way:<br />
You get a random integer in some range like [0.2*salary, 5*salary], add it to your salary, and then write that number down on a piece of paper and pass it to person #2. Person #2 adds their salary to the number, writes this new number down on a new piece of paper and passes it to person #3. Person #3 adds their salary to the number, writes the new sum on a new piece of paper and passes it back to you. You subtract off the random number, and announce the result, which is the sum of the three salaries.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Yoak: Simple Arithmetic by Stephen Morris</title>
		<link>http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/10/yoak-simple-arithmetic/comment-page-1/#comment-641</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=813#comment-641</guid>
		<description>There is a very long running and popular game show  in Britain which has exactly this kind of problem.  You can try it out for yourself  here.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dilan4.com/maths/countdown.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.dilan4.com/maths/countdown.htm&lt;/a&gt;
If you search for &#039;countdown number game&#039; you will find many sites which solve them for you.  I couldn&#039;t find any which solve this particular problem, they all make an assumption which isn&#039;t valid here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a very long running and popular game show  in Britain which has exactly this kind of problem.  You can try it out for yourself  here.<br />
<a href="http://www.dilan4.com/maths/countdown.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.dilan4.com/maths/countdown.htm</a><br />
If you search for &#8216;countdown number game&#8217; you will find many sites which solve them for you.  I couldn&#8217;t find any which solve this particular problem, they all make an assumption which isn&#8217;t valid here.</p>
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		<title>Comment on GI. Mrs Perkins&#8217; Electric Quilt by Stephen Morris</title>
		<link>http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/10/gi-mrs-perkins-electric-quilt/comment-page-1/#comment-640</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:58:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=822#comment-640</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;It is very neat that it takes the same time to fall from one place on the earth to any other point.   I hadn&#039;t come across that before.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p&gt;Galileo came up with something similar, the time it takes for a bead to fall along a rod from the top of a circle to any point on the circle is the same.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is very neat that it takes the same time to fall from one place on the earth to any other point.   I hadn&#8217;t come across that before.</p>
<p>Galileo came up with something similar, the time it takes for a bead to fall along a rod from the top of a circle to any point on the circle is the same.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Yoak: Foxy! by Andy</title>
		<link>http://mathfactor.uark.edu/2009/10/yoak-foxy/comment-page-1/#comment-639</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 03:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mathfactor.uark.edu/?p=820#comment-639</guid>
		<description>Call the holes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Then every time the fox moves, the parity of the hole it is in changes. We can use this to limit the holes it can be in. Basically we want to force it to be in only one of the two even holes, from which situation it is easy to get a solution.
We start off picking hole 2. Assume we don&#039;t get it. That means on the second day it could be in any of the holes except 1. Now we check hole 3. Assume we don&#039;t get it. So on the second day it&#039;s in hole 2, 4, or 5. That means that on the third day the only even hole it could be in is 4. So we check 4. Assume we don&#039;t get it. Then it must have been in hole 2 or 4 on the second day, so on the fourth day it is again in hole 2 or 4.
Now we check hole 2. If we didn&#039;t get it, it must be in hole 3 or 5. So we check 3, and now if we didn&#039;t get it must be in hole 4, so we check 4 and we are certain to get it.
So the final sequence is 2, 3, 4, 2, 3, 4.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Call the holes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Then every time the fox moves, the parity of the hole it is in changes. We can use this to limit the holes it can be in. Basically we want to force it to be in only one of the two even holes, from which situation it is easy to get a solution.<br />
We start off picking hole 2. Assume we don&#8217;t get it. That means on the second day it could be in any of the holes except 1. Now we check hole 3. Assume we don&#8217;t get it. So on the second day it&#8217;s in hole 2, 4, or 5. That means that on the third day the only even hole it could be in is 4. So we check 4. Assume we don&#8217;t get it. Then it must have been in hole 2 or 4 on the second day, so on the fourth day it is again in hole 2 or 4.<br />
Now we check hole 2. If we didn&#8217;t get it, it must be in hole 3 or 5. So we check 3, and now if we didn&#8217;t get it must be in hole 4, so we check 4 and we are certain to get it.<br />
So the final sequence is 2, 3, 4, 2, 3, 4.</p>
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